In essence what I took from They say I say was the necessity for good explanation. It references an earlier readings that emphasized the need for using good language that everyone can understand. As well as language that is relevant. This piece expounds on that; giving illustrations on how to present information. It gives a few templets on how this can be done. I feel this is very important for a writer to build a well rounded argumentative paper. When you introduce the opposing view of the topic, you can as the reading says, you agree but with a difference. Now once done properly the context although it may be the opposition it will build on to your own topic. For example if I were arguing a music group and their popularity I might just say, Coldplay an alternative rock band is a popular band even if not everyone likes them. Now to me that is a week statement. I feel that by saying, although Coldplay may not be the most popular band around they have lead the alternative rock genre of music for many years and have gathered a huge fan base. Both statement are true and both contain the same information but by introducing the opposition and then showing the writers view makes for a much better statement. The other point to showing both sides of an argument that I find to be very valuable is to show the opposition first then your own stance. My reasoning behind this is you make a point a lot quicker then having to go “full circle.” Also the reader will remember the last things said. Now the issue this piece does give is that the techniques presented are wrote, and repetitive. Now because they are templates they should be switched up often. That is what I plan to do, use them but only to the point where they do not become repetitive. I will have to force myself to figure out my own way to present the information at hand.
Friday, October 30, 2009
They say reading response.
We also need to have some backing behind why we’ve come up with our opinion and show that others have come to the same conclusion. If we can we should find someone else who thinks the same as we do so that, as the writer states, we don’t just make an opinion from come out of the blue. But don’t rely on other’s quotes too heavily and lose sight of what opinion you came up with before you started the paper. This is probably another important point. Sticking to your guns and keeping with the argument you stated at the beginning of the paper. Don’t lose track down the line and make your argument sound hesitant.
Then he has given us starting points for stating our agreement or disagreement or even doing both at the same time. These of course are just as I stated them, starting points for giving us help or ideas in how we approach stating our opinion.
Michael's RR to "They Say"
It appears that most prefer conflict in a situation in order to maintain any type of interest and not have the label boring slapped to it. Any thing we do as a society seems to be this way. Such as sports, political speeches, the news, books you get the point. Who cares about listening to something that we all agree with all ready and that has no opposing side to the issue.
“Yes / No / Okay, But” talks about being clear with your points. In other words present your side of the argument early on, “readers get frustrated, wondering, is this guy agreeing or disagreeing?”. Another clear way of demonstrating your side clearly is by using this: “ I think X is mistaken because she overlooks ...”. This style shows how to clearly present why you disagree.
It will be critical in my paper to establish who is arguing against the conservation of plants, the “they say” part. First off most would think that no one really disagrees openly with conservation, and I agree. But when people with their actions do something to impede upon they stability of an ecosystem there is tremendous consequences. It will also be very important to show both side of the story such as why people did this or why we should stop that.
Thursday, October 29, 2009
Katy Kahla - "They Say, I Say"
As the reading points out though, you can't just state what the opposition thinks. You must also stat your opinion clearly and concisely. You can't leave your audience guessing about how you feel. As the reading says, you can do this by agreeing with a stance, disagreeing, or agreeing but disagreeing as well. By stating your own opinions, you are allowing for your audience to understand how you feel about a topic. For argument papers this is very important because if you don't take a stance that is clear and upfront, you aren't really arguing anything. Instead you are just giving facts about an issues which can lead to the question for the audience "why should we even care about this?"
This reading offers some insights as how I might structure my own paper. I believe that it will be most effective to, as the reading suggests, state my opinion in the opening paragraph and then immediately afterwards, state how my opposition feels about this topic. This allows for me to argue throughout my paper about why the opposition is wrong and what should be done about it. I also think that this will lead to a stronger argument because I will be able to prove my points by disproving what some in my audience may already believe.
Dustin Elison "Well I Say" (Foghorn Leghorn)
Kristen Kuchay's Response to "They Say"
Wednesday, October 28, 2009
Michael McCormick's RR of "Politics and the English Language"
This became most evident in his translation of the Ecclesiastes verse. The first translation was understandable and had a definite structure to the sentence. Including a conclusion to the sentence: “but time and chance happeneth to them all” (Orwell). If you read the then modern english version you just get lost in all the big words that end up disintegrating the meaning. For instance the conclusion of the sentence shows how big words, in my opinion, expressionism for the sake of being impressive, just muddies the water. Does this concluding remark hit home as well as the first translation: “but that a considerable element of the unpredictable must invariably be taken into account” (Orwell). To me it seems that being simple and to the point, with each word, rather than being long and big strikes a little deeper to the point.
I feel like the authors main point is to show how we in the use of the english language are lazy; as well as followers of the misuse of english words, because at the time it is a popular word to misuse. The quote “attraction of this way of writing is that it is easy” shows how people will use words that have gained popularity in use but the true meaning has an entirely different definition (Orwell).
Today though it seems that the same sort of misuse of words is still a problem. However I would say that using many of the words that we use today, which were not originally english words, have been so blended in that they cannot now be separated from every day use. For example the foreign word “cul de sac” will probably not stop being used (Orwell).
For the use of this argument in our paper I think that we should refrain from using such words as “gay” or “that was totally sick” as the true meaning would denote the exact opposite of what we are arguing. Unless of course the use of these words are in a direct quote from an interview or something.
Tuesday, October 27, 2009
Katy Kahla - Politics and the English Language
Everyday I have seen someone use one of Orwell fallacies. This was especially true during the last presidential election. My government class was asked to watch debates from state representatives to national representatives, and one thing every person noticed was that the farther up a politician aspired, the more obscure their answers to questions. Instead of just answering the question flat out with no round abouts, the national representative candidates would answer everything in circles. They did this so they would gain the most vote base because if they never really answered the question, who could disagree with them? But this idea of everyone agreeing because they don't know what to disagree with, just left the audience confused and unwilling to support the ideas of the person persuading them.
The ideas Orwell presents will be very helpful to our argument or really any paper that we write. Instead of trying to fill our paper with fluff so we can meet a page requirement, we should be concise about what we wish to say. This may seem like it will take up less room in the paper, but if we know what we want to say in a precise manner, it allows for better discussion and analysis of our ideas. It also encourages us to talk with meaning and not use premade ideas that have become the “norm” of society. We should return to just say “I think” instead of “In my opinion it is not an unjustifiable…” even though it is not as poetic and sophisticated because no matter what, everyone will know exactly what you think with no guess work.
Blowing Smoke by Dustin Elison
Kristen Kuchay's Response to Politics and the English Language
politics and the English Language.
Monday, October 19, 2009
Katy's Reading Response
A debater is seen as more credible if they can prove they know both sides to an argument. They have shown that they have taken the time to not only research how they feel about an issue but how the opposition feels about an issue. This is one of the reasons that politicians not only research their side of the argument but their opponents as well. It allows them to influence the opposing side’s supporters because they know how they feel about an issue and can influence it to change to what they want them to feel about it.
All of these tips are very helpful when it comes to writing our own argument papers. We need to be well educated in our topic, both pros and cons, so that we can not only use our evidence purposefully but so we can express our opinions in a knowledgeable way. If we are able to prove that we not only know our side of an argument but the oppositions as well, we will have more credit to our opinions and hopefully, we shall be able to convince people to join our side. I also learned that everything I use needs to not only be well sourced, but very credible. Who is going to believe what I think if I only use Wikipedia or my dad as a source? Instead, credible sources that many people have edited or commented on are better. All of this will allow me to better craft my argument on how the media has influenced us to believe an unrealistic idea of how our bodies should look.
Sunday, October 18, 2009
Skyler Harris Reading Response 6
Argumentative papers seem to be the most challenging for me to write. The main reason for that is I sometimes have a difficult time keeping my biased view out of the picture. Yes it is important to take a stance, as well as very necessary. Because unless a stance is taken then an argumentative paper will look more like a week attempt to make a point. In the reading it discuses the point of arguing in academia, which is to challenge knowledge as we have it. I would purpose that arguing not only will challenge knowledge but also the status quo. Unless we use our minds and come up with our own conclusions on how life is then nothing would ever change for the better. Thus argumentative writing is an essential part of academia.
Now I mentioned how I have a difficult time keeping my bias out of my work. The way that I feel that this can be overcome is by simply showing all sides of the subject. Now i’m not implying that I should argue all the sides, because if I did then it would be weak to say the least. However showing both sides is a good thing for the author. The reason behind this is a person can use the info that could support a different view and use it to support their own view. This can be difficult if the writer is not careful. If the view is positioned in a way that the author ends up mocking the view or out right calling it stupid, I feel it will discredit the rest of their paper. Basically it will make the author look foolish and like a bad writer. This is why I hope to polish my techniques when I look at other points to my argument.
Moving on to the op-ed portion of the assignment, this is the most exciting for me. I have never argued the opposed position in one of my own papers before. I feel that with my subject I really could argue ether side because of this the op-ed gives me an opportunity to give my input on both fronts. I have to say sometimes I enjoy playing the Devils advocate, so it will be exciting to see how it plays out. What is very interesting to me is the lack of sources. I know if I were to send in on op-ed to the local news paper I would include at least one source even if it was the name of the article or person I was quoting. So that aspect of the paper if very different to me. As I have began my argumentative paper I have also started to think about what I will formulate in my op-ed, It will be a nice way to end the writing process for the class.
Dustin's P.O.V. (point of view)
It was interesting to see how Ballenger compared Eastern and Western cultures showing the differences in how we argue and conduct ourselves in heated or tense situations. There are quite noticebly, even within the cultures themselves, different levels and types of people who enjoy conflict. Let's face it, who doesn't like to play devil's advocate every once in a while? I don't mind partaking in a casual public debate in the classroom or at work, but I undoubtedly hate friction when it comes to intimate relationships. Sometimes it is necessary though to get to the root of a problem, the only place a problem can really be dealt with!
If the argument is public and especially if it's personal, make sure that you have enough evidence and ammunition to back yo a$$ up. There is nothing more convincing than: stats, polls, studies, surveys, majorities, expert opinions, and best of all stories from the horse's mouth! Good avid research and sound facts are what will help us all to find a solid stance for the foundation of our paper. Each side of a coin is still worth the same amount, with enough conviction your side of the story may gain an escalated value.
Michael's RR
Argument is not to be something we are suppose to be afraid of in America. Understandably some cultures do not argue and that is okay. But in America people sometimes make it more than it really is. For instance when a person disagrees with somebody they are afraid to stand up for themselves, these people are sometimes referred to as pushovers. So the cycle continues until some brave soul stands up and defeats the bully. Metaphorically, this would be considered a close-ended argument, and is not what our argument paper should look like.
This is not what Bruce Ballenger is portraying in his essay at all. In fact I would go so far as to say that Bruce is referring to everyday things, an argument with an open-ended ending. I am talking about things like: when a person might come to BSU wearing a Vandals logo. He would be arguing that in some way the Vandals are better than the Broncos. I am not just referencing scores at a sports game, but that the Broncos are not good enough for his money or advertising space. Ultimately the Vandals just mean more to that person.
I began to realize that anything and everything we do is an argument. This Vandals vs. BSU could be more of an open-ended argument if based on Ballenger’s open model process. However, we would have to start the argument without any initial opinion or belief.
I learned that we must dig deeper into our argument and show both sides rather than just being set in our opinions. I really liked Ballenger’s example of Huckleberry Finn. I believe this example will help me to create evidence based reasons for either traditional medicine or modern medicine for that portion of my paper.
“To argue well is an act of imagination, not a picking of sides.” - Ballenger. Indeed I must look at my arguments through a variety of angles, but without losing my claims. I think I might tell a story to demonstrate the effectiveness of traditional medicine while still using evidence from a scientific article to back this treatment.
Callie Watson reading response - Argument reading.
This reading segment starts out by talking about the way different cultures view argument. It was so interesting to think about it for just a minute. How do I view argument? I can say that every movie I’ve ever seen cannot have a story without conflict or an argument. I remember one time I was playing Barbie’s with a friend and just wanted it to be a happy time but she wanted us to fight because being nice was not interesting. There is just something about having an argument that makes you intrigued about what is going to happen in the end. Argument is just something that keeps life interesting. I do also agree with the fact that he says argument is a big part of relationships whether it be family, friends, or intimate relationships all of them come with conflict.
The author also talks about there are different ways of starting an argument. You can start out with an opinion and then find the evidence to back it up. Or you can do research and gain an opinion by coming to conclusions on your search. Either way is a great start to writing a paper. But don’t just think that you can write a whole paper on the opinion you’ve come up with. You also need to show the evidence and what the other side of the argument might be. This may also help you to claim your opinion and in the end make a great conclusion about why you believe what you do on that subject.
All of this is a very helpful way to give you ideas about how you want to approach your paper in this class. Do you want to go the route of discovering your opinion as you go along in the paper or do you want to have an opinion and stick to it throughout the paper? Either way it’ll be a great paper. But these are just a few ways to get your paper started and to give you a view on what your paper will be trying to say.
Kristen Kuchay's Reading Response - Curious Researcher
He next goes on to say that you should do a closed model of the argument by starting off with your pre-existing opinion, being followed by gathered evidence that supports this opinion and then finally your argument with your pre-existing belief and the research behind it (Ballenger). This is an effective method because it helps the writer see where he stands on his topic and put all of his evidence and research in an organized fashion, which will later help in the writing of the argument paper. The next type of model Ballenger suggests is the inquiry-based argumentation model, where you begin your argument paper opinion free, begin exploring, explaining, evaluating and reflecting, followed by your opinion or hypothesis which you can test against evidence. This helps because the writer can then see all of the evidence in front of his and decide whether or not to change is created opinion/hypothesis (Ballenger). This normally works for the writer when they are interested in a topic but do not have an opinion either way. Normally people write their argument papers on topics they are interested or passionate about and already have a formed opinion.
This is very helpful for writing our argument paper for the classes because it gives you methods to help in your research and even change your opinion on evidence. Not only do you research the topic with your opinion in mind, but you get to research the other side and other opinions from people on the topic. You get all the information on your topic without really knowing it. I always felt argument papers were a strong point for me because the question or opinion I base my argument paper on is normally something I am very passionate about and want to educate people on with my views. At the same time, I get to see why other people feel the way they feel and eliminate any biases I may have. It helps you to create an introduction where even you as a writer would be interested in reading this paper if you came across it. You want to make it interesting enough where it can grab most, if not all of the people’s attention.